Gun mods and legal repercussions

563 Views 22 Replies 8 Participants Last post by INV136, 9 d ago

fatherguidosarducci

Discussion Starter · 19 d ago

I realize this may have been beaten to death but I thought I would bring this up again as I recently modified both my p-01 and p-01 omega through CZ custom: hammer spring, recoil spring, lighter/smoother DA and lighter SA with a slightly improved re set. FYI: the p-07 definitely came out better, as the p-01 still has some stacking. And yes, I realize there is more they can do with the standard p-01 than the omega version.

In any case, I plan on both of these being my defensive firearms-- night stand, truck, hiking, and possibly IWB CC.

I've always been under the impression that modifications like this should not be a big issue if--God forbid-- I have to draw and fire this weapon on someone who is threatening my life or that of someone near me. I've read the views of proponents and opponents of gun modification, and recently came across an article that was very well thought out, and the comments that came back at the author were interesting.

Should You Modify the Trigger of Your Everyday Carry (EDC) Gun?

For example, your firearm may come from the factory requiring 5.5 pounds of force on the trigger to fire a cartridge. Reducing the weight of the trigger pull to 3.5 pounds of pressure needed to fire the cartridge would make it easier to pull the trigger.

www.concealedcarry.com

It got me thinking quite a bit about this issue. So many people modify their guns, and I know it's not just for competition shooting/range toys. If they didn't, CZ customs and Cajun Gun Works wouldn't be so busy.
It raised the question-- yet again-- is it worth doing anything to a gun that is strictly and EDC/defensive weapon outside of changing out the sights and grips? Are you/we risking too much at the hands of a scumbag attorney looking to sue you on behalf of the person who was shot? I'm not as worried from a criminal liability standpoint as I am from a civil suit standpoint.
And yet, if you buy a competition ready gun such as a CZ sp-01 competition model or the Shadow 2, how is that any different than what I did to my p-01 or p-07? If anything, those guns are still more 'tricked out' than mine are.

It's made me re think keeping my p-01 omega and perhaps going back to get a stock p-01 and just learning to live with the DA trigger.
I would love to hear from anyone who has experience having had to fire their weapon, and if it was modified, and what type of ordeal they went through.

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hiketheball

· #21 · 12 d ago

AnonymousCitizen said:
I don't have a "problematical modifications list", but I can tell you from my own personal experience in non-firearms court matters, and from listening to my son-in-law who's a very successful personal injury attorney, that a motivated, creative, aggressive attorney can move a case his\her way regardless of the law - they can twist facts and be very creative with things like motivation and intent and any other facet of the case that they can use to their advantage - I've seen it happen - and don't depend on a judge to safeguard your rights - judges are nothing more than hack attorneys that couldn't cut it in the real world, so they become farm animals, versus predators - judges are like assembly line workers, moving their docket items forward towards completion, with little or no regard for the individuals behind the case.

Ayoob makes a distinction between home gunsmith changes versus professional gunsmith changes. And being the skeptical guy I am, I'd have to point out that even though the folks that sell different modification packages are fine folks that don't wanna break the law, when the SHTF, it's gonna be you that'll be standing there in the courtroom and dealing with consequences, NOT the folks that modified your gun.

I gave a criteria of what modifications that I permit on a SD firearm but you gave none!
For me, it would be helpful if you gave examples of troublesome modification instead of a vague statements about "modifications".
I gave the intentions for my simple list: it is to improvement accuracy during a SD encounter. Better accuracy means that more people are likely to live through the event. With an unmodified firearm, that won't happen.
IMHO, your answer is lacking. One reason for lack is that you give a "one-size-fits-alll" approach. (Which I've never seen work.) Another reason is that it really doesn't make sense -- a stock firearm with a red dot is okay but adding a red dot isn't. Or, more basically, the red fibre, front sight on my pistol (that I can't see) cannot be modified to a green fiber that I can actually see. Your statement against safety and accuracy is absurd.
Have you heard of subpoenas?
Are you that scared?

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Cragar67

· #22 · 11 d ago

AnonymousCitizen said:
I don't have a "problematical modifications list", but I can tell you from my own personal experience in non-firearms court matters, and from listening to my son-in-law who's a very successful personal injury attorney, that a motivated, creative, aggressive attorney can move a case his\her way regardless of the law - they can twist facts and be very creative with things like motivation and intent and any other facet of the case that they can use to their advantage - I've seen it happen - and don't depend on a judge to safeguard your rights - judges are nothing more than hack attorneys that couldn't cut it in the real world, so they become farm animals, versus predators - judges are like assembly line workers, moving their docket items forward towards completion, with little or no regard for the individuals behind the case.

Ayoob makes a distinction between home gunsmith changes versus professional gunsmith changes. And being the skeptical guy I am, I'd have to point out that even though the folks that sell different modification packages are fine folks that don't wanna break the law, when the SHTF, it's gonna be you that'll be standing there in the courtroom and dealing with consequences, NOT the folks that modified your gun.

wow.

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INV136

· #23 · 9 d ago (Edited)

AnonymousCitizen said:
It can be your legal life on the line after a justified shooting, so IMHO, concerns about whether or not self defense firearm modifications could be used against you by a creative attorney are not unreasonable. There are plenty of people in jails who are not guilty of the crime that they were convicted of because of an over-zealous or deceptive or eager-for-a-win prosecuting attorney - certain modifications are just one more thing that could give them an edge, IMHO. And if you're thinking of basing your freedom on the "jury of my peers" stuff, or the idea of jury nullification, read about how jury instructions pretty much limit the jury (or try to limit) into their deliberation "responsibilities", and intimidate the jury into following the law (good or bad), versus following their conscience. I'd rather NOT give them any edge they might use against me.

The way I look at it is the old, rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6 maxim. I make modifications to my guns if they need them to make them more accurate for me to be able to hit my target/threat and to be able to avoid misses that endanger the public whereby an innocent bystander might be hit if I miss hitting the bad guy/threat. The benefits of being more accurate include not endangering innocent third parties and also to be able to neutralize the threat which will save my life and my loved ones lives as well. As long as I'm not doing something negligent like spraying down the scene with bullets, instead of taking more precise aimed shots, then I'm not concerned about a rogue/communist/biased and racist District Attorney. Even if the shooting was a good a shoot and you have a rogue DA that wrangles a Grand Jury True Bill out of the Grand Jury, that would happen no matter what. So worrying about a crooked DA prosecuting you will not stop it from happening. Unless you just don't take any action at all to save yours or anyone else's lives at the scene. Just get down on your knees and beg the Active Shooter for mercy. That's not why I carry a firearm. That's the only way to avoid a crooked DA from indicting you in the event of an Active Shooter incident.

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Should You Modify the Trigger of Your Everyday Carry (EDC) Gun?

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